Postings from the John Ankerburg Show. This contains a lot of information on why abortion is wrong. It talks about when life begins, how abortions are done, and what are the current arguments on both sides of the story.
In His Love,
Michael A. Kline, Sr. SSE VDH, Technical Support (804)786-1559 XVDHMAK at VCUVM1 Richmond, Virginia
John Ankerburg - Abortion # 7 --- Part 1 of 2.
This got to be a lot longer than I thought it would. At first I thought, "They said this, they said that." Then they started on new stuff and it was quite good. If you not interested, delete away. There's a "Table of Contents" below that should allow you a quick glance at what's here. I included all this information because it was new to me.
Did you know that the Supreme Court DID know when life began? Did you know that NOW president Molly Yard said that China's policy of one child and the rest aborted was by far the best? Who's kidding who? At an estimated 5 billion dollars in the abortion industry, who's getting rich? Did you know that the Supreme Court had decided FOR abortion before Roe vs. Wade even hit the books? Yeaaaaaghhhhh. Oh well, I'm calm now.
I've got John Ankerburg's book. It has tons of useful info in it as well. A couple things I suspected. Did you know that the Supreme Court ruled in favor of NOT KEEPING RECORDS on women injured by abortion. The reason, "It might affect a women's decision not to have an abortion." A survey of 21,700 obstetricians in 1974 estimated some 1,300 women would die of abortions, but only 52 were reported. Even at 5-10% of the reporting, and calling it 50% of the figures, "Abortion is already the fifth leading cause of maternal death in the United States. The most common causes of death from legal aboriton include: hemmorrhage, infection, blood clots in the lungs, heart failure, and anesthetic complications. ...more frequently the death occurs after the patient leaves the clinic..." Did you know that a doctor IS NOT REQUIRED TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS OR INFORM THE PATIENT OF *ANY* COMPLICATIONS OF ABORTIONS, but only has to convice her it is in her best interest?
There was also a bunch on the women, the children, the families that have experienced. This smacks right against all claims that if not for abortion so many women would have died. Children have nightmares, women hear their aborted babies cry (some 55% have problems).
Well nuff on the book. Back to the program. This was last Sunday. I'm a little late getting it out.
John Ankerburg, Sunday, March 11, FAM Channel 10:30. This program talks about Roe vs. Wade & Doe vs. Bolton and the impacts.
Table of Contents
1. What did the decision involve? 2. What was it's impact? 3. What was the basis for the Roe v Wade decision? a. Pagan view of life over Judeo-Christian. b. The infant is not viable. c. It's only a potential person. d. We don't know when life begins... 4. The decision was a conspiracy? Maybe.
Part 2 will continue here --------------------------------------------> 5. Two years earlier they did from professional testimony. a. Ignored testimony on baby's humanity given by 220. 6. Reason 5 - Right to Privacy(?), from where? 7. What have been the results? a. 26,000,000 innocent babies killed. b. 15,000,000 women maimed for life. c. Planned parenthood promotes it as birth control. d. Molly Yard, Pres of NOW, says China's policy of only 1 child best method out there. (1 healthy child, rest aborted by law.)
They started with a few quotations form Justice Harry Blackmun. This was mostly about what the decision involved, IE: Abortion right up to death. Mr. Blackmun talked about some of the names he's been called an questions to his lineage to Dachau (Dak-how).
Attorney Archibald Cox(sp) the prosecutor of the Watergate scandal has stated about Roe vs. Wade and Doe vs. Bolton, "The decisions plainly ...sweep away established law supported by the moral themes dominant in American life for more than a century in favor of what the court takes as a wiser view." Cox went on to say "The court denied the respect for the sanctity of human life which has been a cornerstone of western civilization. The court was now attacking that cornerstone."
"Roe vs. Wade and Doe vs. Bolton may stand as the most radical decisions ever issued by the Supreme Court." Prof. John T. Nooman, Jr. University of CA, Berkley.
"The Court started ... retrogressions into medical barbarism, from which we will not soon recover..." Prof. Paul Ramsey, Princeton.
THE BASIS FOR ROE VS. WADE.
1. A pagan view of life over against a Judeo-Christian view. Justice Blackmun "Greek and Roman Law afforded little protection to the unborn." and that abortion "...was resorted to without scruple." and that "... ancient religion did not bar abortion." But then again, Greek and Roman Law not only permitted abortion, it also permitted infanticide and suicide. So would the Supreme Court on that same basis, rule in favor of people killing their children who are already born? Of course not.
2. The State has no compelling interest in restricting abortion until the point of viability. It placed viability at 6-7 months or 24-28 weeks. It failed to take note that 20-30% of infants were viable at 4.5 months or 20 weeks. Even after, the Supreme Court ruled the pre-born is not a person and there fore not protected by the constitution. "The problem with the Supreme Court's definition of viability was that modern technology is constantly pushing back the time when the unborn infant can survive outside of the womb. Dr. Bernard Nathanson talked about how viability is changing all the time and should soon be back to about 12 weeks or so.
3. The unborn child was only a potential person. The court said, "The fetus, at most, represents only the potentiality of life." Justice Stewart referred to the fetus as "The potential future human life within a woman." Do you agree that life can be broken down to "No Life", "Potential Life", and then "Actual Life"?
Joseph Scheidler, Executive Director, Pro-Life Action League, Chicago. "We also had a bad court. A court that was uneducated on the issue of human life and admitted that, that they didn't know when life began. They called the unborn child "potential life" which is a square circle. There's no such thing as "potential life", you either actually exist or you don't." Science says of the unborn "potential". 1)It is alive, not potentially alive. 2)It has a unique human nature, not a potential human nature. 3)At any stage of development the unborn child is an actual person. "It is incorrect to say that the biological data cannot be decisive. It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception when the egg and the sperm join to form the zygote. This developing human always is a member of our species in all stages of its life." Prof. Michaline Matthews-Roth, Harvard University Medical School. MAKS> I like this quote. So many keep saying, "Oh yea, since when has science called it human? It's a fetus, a Product of Conception."
Reason 4. "We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary at this point in the development of man's knowledge is not in a position to speculate to the answer." Super smoke screen. Bernard Nathanson, MD. Obstetrician, NY, NY. - "The sperm has only 23 chromosomes and the egg has only 23 chromosomes. Where as every human being including the human being that is formed at conception has 46 chromosomes. So in that sense the sperm and egg are not complete human beings. Life in the uterus before birth is a smooth continuum. And in that sense one cannot designate at some point when life begins. There's no barmitzpha in the uterus. It is merely life beginning when it really begins. Now we've created it in the test tube. We've watched it start. We have seen the spark struck in invetro fertilization, the sperm meets the egg. So the question of when life begins is no longer metaphysical, theological, legal, moral, religious. It is absolutely, scientific now, and it has been established to begin at conception."
John: "The issue of when human life begins is not primarily an issue of philosophy or theology, but strictly of science and medicine." John went on to say that over the years the courts had listened to science but for Roe vs. Wade, they threw science out the door.
The following is a long quote, but a very good one. An eye opener.
Judie Brown, President, American Life League. "Well we've done a study of how Roe V Wade came to pass, because after Justice William O. Douglas passed away, all of his records were made available to the public which was just one year ago. And we had a team of researchers go down and literally sort through 4,000 of Justice Douglas' papers, and what we learned by studying all of those papers which related to the Roe Vs. Wade decision was really, really horrifying. First of all we realized that Justice Brennen, who is the so called token Catholic on the Supreme Court literally advised Justice Blackmun every step of the way how to craft judicial arguments that would make it possible to legalize the killing of innocent babies. "There is also a memo that Justice Blackmun sent to Justice Douglas in which he pointed out that his aim through Roe V Wade was going to be to legalize abortion no matter what steps he had to take. He wanted to minimize the damage to the judicial process however in such a way that he would come up with the most logical argument that the Justices could possibly use, but they had to legalize abortion. And so they knew when they took the case, Roe V Wade, and Doe V Bolton, that they were in fact going to legalize abortion. The only question that was in there minds was how to do it. This is why the Justices chose in 1972 when they heard the arguments, to eliminate all medical discussion in the hearing. There were no pieces of evidence allowed in that courtroom regarding the humanity of the child in the womb. And that in fact, was why the Justices were able to say Physicians and theologians do not agree when life begins so we will simply not discuss that issue. This is strictly an issue of a woman and her right to make a decision with her doctor. So the humanity of the child was discounted immediately because Justice Blackmun and Justice Brennon both realized if they were to take a good look at the medical evidence regarding the existence of the child, they would not be able to legalize abortion. They had already made up their minds they would legalize abortion."
John Ankerburg - Abortion # 7 --- Part 2 of 2.
This program talks about Roe vs. Wade & Doe vs. Bolton and the impacts.
Table of Contents ---------------------------------------------------> Part 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------> 1. What did the decision involve? 2. What was it's impact? 3. What was the basis for the Roe v Wade decision? a. Pagan view of life over Judeo-Christian. b. The infant is not viable. c. It's only a potential person. d. We don't know when life begins... 4. The decision was a conspiracy? Maybe.
Part 2 (This portion) ------------------------------------------------> 5. Two years earlier they did from professional testimony. a. Ignored testimony on baby's humanity given by 220. 6. Reason 5 - Right to Privacy(?), from where? 7. What have been the results? a. 26,000,000 innocent babies killed. b. 15,000,000 women maimed for life. c. Planned parenthood promotes it as birth control. d. Molly Yard, Pres of NOW, says China's policy of only 1 child best method out there. (1 healthy child, rest aborted by law.)
Part 2 continuing ---------------------------------------------------->
John: "What most people don't know is that scientist and medical doctors had given unanimous testimony before the court that human life begins at conception. In fact this testimony was given to the Supreme Court 2 years before Roe Vs. Wade in October of 1971, when a group of 220 distinguished physicians, scientists, and professors, submitted an amicus quri(sp) brief, that is advise to the court, on some legal matter. In this brief, they showed the Supreme Court how modern science had already established that from the moment of conception on, the unborn child is a person, and must be considered a person just like it's mother. In fact, the brief stated this. It's task was "...To show how clearly and conclusively modern science - embryology, fetology, genetics, perinatology, all of biology - establishes the humanity of the unborn child." Now this scientific evidence proved beyond any doubt that human life begins at conception, and the unborn is a person within the meaning of the fifth and fourteenth amendment. But sadly, the Supreme Court ignored all the scientific evidence that had been given to them by the expert testimony, and wrongly stated in Roe vs. Wade that conception might be a process rather than an event. This statement of theirs went against all that the scientists had told them, and is totally false, and scientifically unfounded. The Supreme Court had access to all the correct data but ignored it. And that's why Roe vs. Wade must be changed."
Reason 5. "Right to Privacy". This right to privacy was "...broad enough to encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy." Constitutional authority, Michael Farris, counsel, Concerned women for America. "There is no written part of the constitution which enumerates a right to privacy. The Supreme Court said it came from the emanations of the penumbrae of the Bill of Rights. Now it takes a combination of being able to know what tea leaf reading is and some astronomy to explain that because a penumbrae is a partial shadow cast by the moon in an eclipse."
Even if there was a "Right to privacy", it would not take priority over the taking of someone's life. "The Court would hardly argue that when everyone's privacy is potentially disturbed, by prying neighbors or obnoxious newsmen, one may kill the source of the disturbance and the result will be justifiable homicide." Dr. John Warwick Montgomery. John: "No where does the constitution allow you the right to privacy to the extent that you may take your 3 year old child into your basement and privately kill him there, nor does it give a woman the right to privately kill the unborn person in her womb. "In other words, the decision of the Supreme Court legalizing abortion was not only incorrect scientifically and medically, but it was also argued on extremely poor legal grounds. And that's why it is without doubt one of the worst examples of judicial activism in this century."
What have been the results of the Supreme Court decision?
Susan Smith - National Right to Life, Wash, DC - "Well, we got on demand through all nine months of pregnancy because of a Supreme Court decision known as Roe vs. Wade. And until that Supreme Court decision, there were 50 state laws, one in every state that protected unborn children, most states prohibited abortion entirely except to save the life of the mother, and the other states had varying degrees of protection. When the Supreme Court handed down the Roe v Wade decision in 1973, that just wiped 50 state laws right off the books, so those laws were completely invalid, and in one decision every protection that had sought to save the life of these children was wiped completely off the books. And with that, we had abortion, for any reason, at any point during pregnancy up until the point of birth, no parental consent, notification, fathers of these babies that are being destroyed have no say so. Girls of any age can go in for an abortion for any reason, no matter how many times they want, and in fact today, 40% of all the women going in for abortions are having their second, third, fourth abortion. There's a 40% repeat rate. That's what Roe vs. Wade gave us in 1973."
Judie Brown, President, American Life League. - "Well the results of that Supreme Court decision have been absolutely incredible. First of all, there have been over 26,000,000 babies killed by legalized abortion. Secondly there have been at least 15,000,000 women maimed for life, and the reason I say there's such a big discrepancy between the number of babies who died, and the number of women who have been maimed is that many women are on their fifth and sixth abortion, some of them up to their tenth abortion. Because what has happened in America is, that those who promote abortion, groups like Planned Parenthood, Na Ral(?), and others truly believe that when someone is using any form of birth control and it fails, that abortion is another method of birth control. Fate Wadelton has said that, Kate Michaelman said that, all of the abortionists have said that. In fact, Molly Yard, the president of National Organization of Women on national television, pointed out to Oppra Winfree's viewing audience that in her opinion the Chinese policy of abortion was by far the very best policy, and that is if you have one healthy child, any future pregnancies should automatically be terminated and that should be the law. And with that kind of a mind set coming from our opposition is it any wonder that thousands and thousands of women were destroyed by abortion as their children go silently to their graves."
Now what can be done? Write legislators, the capital. Educate the people as to what is really going on.
Eventually, we need a Federal statute that will protect the unborn. I heard a figure once of $230 for an abortion. Using $200, there would have been some $5,200,000,000 spent on abortions. Someone's pockets are getting fat, and it's not the women getting abortions. The baby IS a human person, whether it is in the womb or not.
John Ankerburg - Part 8 - Sunday, March 18, 1990.
This show features a bunch of quotes from those in the abortion field.
Nita Whitten - A lady who worked as a chief secretary in an abortion clinic in Dallas Texas. She eventually came to realize she was involved in the business of killing babies. Cathy Sparks - Worked in an abortion clinic in Granite City, IL. She was trained in all areas of the abortionary business and had a clear view of the questionable and appalling practices of the clinic. Debbie Henry - Worked as an assistant and a councilor for six months in an ob/gyn office in Lavonia, Mich. She loved children but saw abortion as an elimination of a problem, rather than the killing of babies. Dr. Anthony Levatino - Obstetrician and Gynecologist. He provided abortions for his patients in his office for 8 years. Dr. Joseph Randall - Directed an abortion clinic in Atlanta for 10 years and estimates that he killed 32,000 babies by abortion during that time. Upon his conversion to Christianity, he realized that instead of serving women, he was killing their children. Carol Everett - She had an abortion and then became involved in the abortion industry itself. She set up referral clinics in Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma and worked in two clinics in which 800 abortions were performed each month. It was not until she witnessed the effects of abortion on women that she became convinced of the brutality of her profession.
John: HOW ARE WOMEN COUNCILED AT ABORTION CLINICS?
Carol: Let's talk about those kids when they find out that they are pregnant. They may not want an abortion. They many want information, but when they call that number, it's paid for by abortion money. What kind of information do you think they're going to get? Let's remember they sell abortions, they don't sell keeping the baby, they don't sell giving the baby up for adoption, they don't sell delivering that baby in any form. They only sell abortions. Nita: It's a lie when they tell you they're doing it to help women, cause they're not. They're doing it for the money. Carol: So this girl calls this number and says "I'm pregnant". Well, how far along are you, what's the first day of your last normal period? They've got their wheel there and they figure it out. Now this councilor is paid to be this girls friend. She is paid to be the authority for this girl. She is supposed to seduce her into a friendship of sorts to sell her the abortion.
Nita: I was trained by a professional marketing director how to sell abortions over the telephone. This man came into our clinic and he took everyone of our receptionists, all of the nurses, anyone that would be on the phone and he took us through an extensive training period where we learned how to sell abortions over the telephone. So that when the girl called, we hooked the sale, so she wouldn't go down the street and get an abortion somewhere else, and so that she wouldn't adopt out her baby, or so that she wouldn't change her mind. We were doing it to get her money. It was for the money.
Debbie: After the basic questions they were told briefly about what was to happen to them AFTER the procedure. All that they were told about the procedure itself was that they would experience slight cramping similar to menstrual cramps and that was it. They were not told about the development of the baby. They were not told about the pain the baby would be experiencing, or the physical effects it would have on them themselves, or the emotional effects. They had no idea who was going to be there to help them when they fell apart afterwards. The women were never given any type of alternatives to abortions. It was automatically assumed that they knew what they wanted. They were never told adoption agencies. They were never told about people who are out there willing to help them, to give them homes to live in, to provide them with care and even financial support.
Carol: And then they say "Is it a baby?". No, it's a "product of conception", it's a "blood clot", it's a "piece of tissue". They don't even really tell them it's a fetus, because that almost humanizes it too much. But it's never a baby. They can't admit it themselves when they go in the back and have little 6 week fetuses, babies, they put down disposals.
Dr. Levatino - I want the general public to know what the doctors know. That this is a person. This is a baby. That this is not some kind of blob of tissues that doesn't make any difference.
Carol: So they go through this whole gambit of reselling abortion, encouraging, suppressing, call us if you have a problem. And the girls leave, and they do have problems.
Debbie: One of the famous lines that the doctor's wife used to use after the procedure. She'd come in when the women were crying, she'd pat them on their shoulder and say "It's okay, honey, everybody makes mistakes. That's why pencils have erasers." But how can you erase that thought from your mind? Where is she going to be when that woman is threaten suicide cause she realizes she killed her child and there's no bringing that baby back. Where's she going to be then? She's off counting her money and buying new cars, what ever. She doesn't care.
John: What is the reactions to the abortions for the women? What are the complications?
Carol: And then there are 2 reactions in the recovery room. The first one is, "I've killed my baby.", and even then it amazed me that that was the first time they called it a baby, the first time they called it murder. But the second reaction is, "I am hungry, you kept me in here for 4 hours, you told me I'd only be in here for 2, let me out of here." Now that woman is doing what I did. She's running from her abortion. She's not dealing with it, she's choosing to deny it, and she's the woman that we read all the statistics about post abortion syndrome. They say now it's an average of 5 years before people actually deal with the fact that yes, they did kill their baby. And yes, they do have to deal with that.
Levatino: I've perforated uteruses before, I've had all kinds of problems, bleeding, infection, Lord knows how many of them women are sterile now. I remember getting called down to my chairman's office, because a young woman I'd done an abortion on showed up interestingly enough in Troy NY where I now work, and the abortion had been incomplete. I hadn't done my job right, and she passed an arm or a leg, she freaked out, because she didn't realize what had happened.
Carol: We saw complications in the second and third trimester. But we were seeing 1 per 500 abortions for over a year. A death, and yes we had a death. A 32 year old woman with a 17 year old son, and a 2 year old son. Never made the papers. Her boy friend felt guilty for his part in the abortion and he didn't want to deal with it. Her family felt "Yes, she'd probably had an abortion" but they didn't want to deal with it. It never came out. No lawsuit. The 21 year old that "danced" in and I'll never forget her as long as I live, she was my son's age. "Danced" in to get her "problem" taken care of. Had the extra money to be put to sleep. And you see my job for 2 of those doctors was to put my right hand on the baby and hold it while they did the abortion so I could tell them where the head was and where the legs were and all of that. And I had my hand on that woman's stomach and that baby was perfectly inside her uterus, she had been examined by the doctor and he said yes, the baby was inside the uterus, everything was fine, 24 weeks. He went in one time and he pulled out the placenta and he went in the second time and he went through the back of her uterus pulled her bowel out of her vagina. And we put her in the car because we didn't want an ambulance in front of the abortion clinic and we took her to the hospital. 7 doctors worked on her and they did a colostomy on her. And when the reports came back, they said it was an abdominal pregnancy, that it had not been in the uterus, and 7 doctors and pathologists concurred with that. And then the hospital wrote off her bill, and there was no lawsuit, ever. She was told that was a normal complication and it was just amazing she had made it that long. And she didn't know any better. And then the girl that the doctors decided had a fibroid tumor at the back of her uterus. That's a highly common tumor, that's very rarely malignant. And the two doctors decided they were just going to pull this out after she had her abortion, and they didn't know they were pulling on the back of her uterus and they pulled her uterus wrong side out of a 21 year old. She had a hysterectomy. Those are the ones that I remember. Those are the ones that bother me. Those are the ones that I have to go through and deal with and be healed of constantly. Because you see, it was like the mothers were presenting their babies to be killed and it was okay to kill 500 babies a month, but when we started killing or maiming a mother for each 500 babies, even I couldn't handle that.
What about ultrasound? What does it do for the abortionist and the staff? What about the pictures?
McArthur Hill, MD, Denver, CO - The technology of ultrasound has the ability to open a window into the womb. When a woman sees her own baby moving on the screen, it has a profound influence on her, and I believe this is the technology which should be used as much as possible. Abortionists also know that ultrasound can be an valuable tool in the performance of an abortion for another reason. Dr. Sally Dorfman reported on the use of ultrasound during abortion at the annual meeting of the American Public Health Association of 1986. It is also interesting that she has warned against letting the patient seeing the image on the screen as "seeing a blown up, moving image of embryo she is carrying can be distressing to a woman who is about to under go an abortion.
Joseph Randall - The ultrasound or sound wave picture, which was moving or "real time ultrasound" showed the baby really on TV. The baby really came alive on TV and was moving. And that picture, bothered me more than anything else, because I didn't know then, but you bond with that picture. We lost 2 nurses, they couldn't take looking at it. Some other staff, the turn over rate was greater when we started doing the D&E's. The women that are having the abortions are NEVER allowed to look at the ultrasound. Because, even if they heard the heartbeat, many times they wouldn't have the abortion, and we didn't want that. No money in that.
John: How profitable is it? Is all money reported?
Levatino: Along the way you find out you make a lot of money doing abortions. I can work in an abortion clinic. I work 9 to 5. I'm never bothered at night, never have to go out on weekends. I make more money than my obstetrician brothers, and I don't have to face the liability. That's a big factor. That's a huge perk. As I said, in my practice we were averaging $200 to $500 for an abortion, and it was in cash. It's the one time as a doctor you can say, "Either pay me up front or I'm not going to take care of you." It's totally elective. When somebody comes to me and they're pregnant and their husband's lost their job, and maybe their insurance isn't in effect, we don't turn them away. But when somebody's going to have an abortion, it's an elective procedure, you either have the money or you don't. And they get it. Nobody's going to call me at night, and I almost never, NEVER have to worry about her lawyer bothering me.
Carol: I've seen doctor's walk out after 3 hours work, and split $4500 dollars between them on a Saturday morning, and more if you go longer into the day, of course. If abortion is such a good thing, why don't they give them away? They don't collect the doctors money with the clinic money. They collect it separately. They do not show it on any of the records on those clinics. Four clinics I've been in and worked in never showed that they collected the doctor's money at any place. That way they're independent contractor's, you don't have to be concerned with their malpractice insurance, and you do not have to report it to the IRS.
Nita: Every single transaction we do is cash money. We wouldn't take a check, we wouldn't take a credit card. There were times when we tried doing checks, but we kept losing money. And there were times when they did the medicare and those kind of abortions, but after I got to work there, we eliminated all that, and it was cash only deal. And I mean it was cash only, if you didn't have the money, forget it. It wasn't unusual at all for me to take $10,000-$15,000 a day to the bank, in cash.
John: WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BABY AND MOTHER DURING AN ABORTION?
Levatino: There's a lot of people don't know what abortion is about. They don't know what is being aborted. They don't know how it is being done.
Debbie: I used to think of abortion as eliminating a problem instead of killing a baby. Euphuisms that are used, clusters of cells, products of conception, or just plain tissue, are all lies. I have been there, and I have seen these totally formed babies, as early as 10 weeks, a couple inches long, with a leg missing, or with her head off.
Carol: I killed my baby, and I'm still not through that. And how difficult it is for all these women, because you see, I believe all these women, even if she's not physically harmed, is harmed by abortion.
Debbie: I was told that one of the Pro-Life problems is that we talk too much about the babies being ripped apart, we show terrible pictures, we dwell on these things too much. What are we supposed to do? This is the reality of abortion. Are we supposed to say, "Don't go in for that abortion, your "fetus" or "tissue" will become deceased?" It doesn't make sense, you tell them the truth, the facts. We're not there to lie to them. I'm there to tell them the truth. Babies are being ripped up. Yes, these babies do look like this during an abortion. And yes, it does hurt your baby, and most of all, it does affect the woman.
Carol: There are no words to describe how bad it really is. It kills the baby. And yes, I've seen sonograms with the baby PULLING away from the instruments which were introduced into through the vagina. I've seen D&Es through 32 weeks done with out the mother being put to sleep. And yes they hurt, and they are very painful to the baby, and yes they're very, VERY painful to the woman. I've seen 6 people hold a woman on the table while they did her abortion. (Tears coming into her eyes)
Debbie: My job was to take the baby and to take him into the lab. We would take it out of the little sack, lay it in the pan. The doctor would come in an examine it. If he thought it was adequate enough "tissue" we would take the baby, put it into a jar, and send it to the lab, IF SHE HAD INSURANCE. If she had no insurance, the baby was simply put down the garbage disposal.
Cathy: Often times, second trimester abortions were performed, and these babies we would not put in the little jar with the label and send to the pathology lab. We would put them down a flushing toilet, and that's where we would put these babies. They knew that they couldn't turn them in or they were going to be found out they were doing abortions that were too big.
Nita: What did we do for fetal disposal? Well they basically put them down the garbage disposal if they were small enough, and that is what we did. We never sent anything to the lab for pathology unless there was something WEIRD going on, or the doctor wanted to make sure he wouldn't get sued. That was the only reason he'd send, to keep from getting sued. And then of course, we started giving them, the larger babies to the University of Texas Health Clinic Center.
Levatino: No more with the saline. You trade one kind of brutality for another. Well, I'll tell you one thing about D&E. You never have to worry about a baby being born alive. And that's one "positive" aspect about it, if you want to put it that way. If any of you don't know what D&E is all about I'm not going to describe it other than say as a doctor you're sitting there tearing, and I mean tearing, you need a lot of strength, to do it, arms and legs off of babies and putting them on a stack on top of a table.
Carol: Because you see when the babies are so big, they don't come apart, like the others. Their muscle structure is so strong that the heads come off the body and you can't dispose of those in the disposal. You have to put those into the trash.
Cathy: The bones were far too developed to rip them up with this currette. And so he had to try to pull the baby out with forceps which he brought out about 3 or 4 major pieces, then he scraped and suctioned, and scraped and suctioned. And there this little baby boy was laying on the tray. His whole face was perfectly formed like the sign you saw. Perfectly formed, little eyes were closed, little ears, everything was perfect about this little boy.
Debbie: There was one incident where a white piece came out and I asked the doctor later on what it was. And it was the baby's skull. And I can still, to this very day, hear the crushing noise of that baby's skull being crushed. (Face grimacing, tears)
John: Why the doctor changed his mind.
Levatino: We're going crazy trying to find a baby to adopt, and here we are so we started desperately looking for a baby to adopt and I'm throwing them in the garbage at rate of 9 to 10 a week. And it even occurred to me then, it's like, I wish one of these people would just let me have their child. But it doesn't work that way. We were lucky. It still took 4 months. We had adopted a healthy little girl. And we were satisfied, we called her Heather. Why a doctor changes his mind. We can talk about why doctors do abortions and I think that the reasons tend to be more or less universal. But why doctors change their mind I think, my guess would be very personal and would be very different from one doctor to another. As I said, my reasons for quitting were a lot more personal, but maybe you can draw something from it. Life was good, until June 23, 1984. On that date, I was on call, but I was at home at the time. And we had some friends over, and our children were playing in the back of the yard. And at 7:25 that evening, we heard the screech of brakes out front of the house. We ran outside, and Heather was lying in the road. We did everything we could, and she died. Let me tell you something, when you lose a child, YOUR CHILD, life is very different. Everything changes. And, all of a sudden the idea of a person's life, becomes very real, it's not an embryology course anymore. It's not just a couple of hundred dollars. It's the real thing. (fighting back the tears, stammering) It's your child you buried. And the old discomforts came back, in spades. I couldn't think about a D&E abortion anymore. No way. Then you start to realize this is somebody's child. I lost my child, someone who was very precious to us, and now I'm taking somebody's child and I'm tearing them right out of their womb. I'm killing somebody's child. That's what it took to get me to change. I began to feel like a paid assassin. That's exactly what it was. You know still, old habits die hard, but it got to a point and Sis and I talked about it together, that it just wasn't worth it. It wasn't worth it to me anymore. The money wasn't worth it. Pro women my butt, I don't care. This is coming out of my hide, it's costing me too much. It's costing me too much personally, for all the money in the world wouldn't have made any difference. So I quit.
John Ankerburg -------------- Abortion 9 ----- 03/26/90-FAM-10:30PM
This program was a "call to action", and I debated putting it on some of the other lists, but based on the write up of the lists, it belongs here just the same as any others. Even if you disagree, it shows the Christian side of the "argument" against abortion. I don't see where this "call to action" is to ban ALL abortions, but a call to stop the "convenient" abortions that boil down to birth control and the like. 25 million babes slaughtered represent almost 5 times the population of Virginia. It's gotten out of hand.
Since some will more than likely not read this, I've pulled some of the better quotes to the top to try and get some reaction, discussion from them. Does anyone have the questions asked, etc. for the surveys mentioned in here? I am really curious what questions were asked in the Boston Globe and how they were asked? What was meant by "non biased"?
Dr. James Kennedy, Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church: Abortion is one of the greatest tragedies in the history of our nation. Almost 25 million innocent babes have been killed. Killed on the order of that person upon whom they the greatest right to expect love and protection and care, their own mothers. This is a tragedy so deep and so dark that I cannot adequately describe it. It is the great shame of America and the world today. Something must be done to stop it. I think that we now have the opportunity and we will be held responsible by our God for doing something to protect the innocent. God is concerned about the widow and about the orphan, and about the innocent and the helpless. I hope that you will act, and you will determine by God's Grace I may not be able to do everything but I can do something and by that Grace I'm going to do it.
Randall Terry - Operation Rescue: "It's a two prong attack, the streets and the political arena. The reason that we will have so much political fire power in the political arena is that we have so many thousand of people in the streets."
Kate Michelman - Natl. Abortion Rights Action League: "In the months ahead the Pro-Choice majority will be active in ways our opponents can only imagine. To politicians who oppose Choice, we say, "Read our lips. Take our rights. Lose your jobs."
Joe Scheidler: ....... The American people DON'T like abortion. All the polls consistently show, the Boston Globe, the New York times, Newsweek, practically every poll has shown that the American people have not changed on abortion. They would allow abortion for the hard cases, which is rape, incest, and life of the mother. They would not allow abortion for economic reasons, for convenience, because it's a bad time for the woman to have a child, because the boy friend or husband has taken off. Actually, the abortions that are performed that would be approved of by the majority of the American people are less than 2%, the real hard cases.
On Feb. 7, 1990, a poll was released by the Worthland group that showed 89% of Americans favored some type of restrictions on abortions. It also showed that only 11% of Americans agree with the position that abortion should be legal without restrictions through out pregnancy.
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General purpose of program. 1)What is the Webster decision? 2)What is its impact on the Pro-Life and Pro-Choice sides? 3)What can you and churches do to let your views be known in your city, your state and your country.
"You know that even a single individual such as yourself, can have a far greater impact in this battle than you'd ever believe possible. Church history is full of everyday men and women with single vision and dedication to a cause, produced dramatic results."
Here's a brief summary of what the Supreme Court decided in the Webster case, and why it opened a door of opportunity for those in the Pro-Life movement.
Preacher: It's not a dog, it's not a cat, it's human life.
Olivia Gans - National Right to Life Cmte. - "From the point of view of the mother of an unborn child, who's died thanks to legalized abortion, it's a great victory, and a step forward.
Crowd: Pro Life is a lie, you don't care if women die.
Molly Yard - Nat. Organization for Women - "I personally think it's war against women and we will respond accordingly."
"The courts long awaited ruling in the Webster case stopped short of overturning the 1973 Roe V Wade decision legalizing abortion, but both sides of a heated battle admit Roe could be in serious trouble. In upholding key parts of the Missouri law, the Justices have granted states far greater authority to restrict abortions. Specifically the Webster case allows states to:
o - Ban abortions in public hospitals or by public employees when the mother's life is not at stake.
o - States can also ban the use of tax money for counseling women to have abortions.
o - And doctors can be required to determine if a fetus, 20 weeks or older, is capable of surviving outside the womb.
Missouri and other states, make it a crime to abort a viable fetus. The Justices issued no ruling on part of the Missouri law which defined life beginning at conception, calling it a philosophical rather than a legal issue. The high court is due to take up 3 more abortion cases in the fall, but for now the battle has shifted from the courtroom to state houses around the nation.
Both Pro-Choice and anti-abortion activists have launched massive campaigns to win the hearts, minds, and most importantly the votes of local legislators.
Randall Terry - Operation Rescue: "It's a two prong attack, the streets and the political arena. The reason that we will have so much political fire power in the political arena is that we have so many thousand of people in the streets."
Kate Michelman - Natl. Abortion Rights Action League: "In the months ahead the Pro-Choice majority will be active in ways our opponents can only imagine. To politicians who oppose Choice, we say, "Read our lips. Take our rights. Lose your jobs."
For the moment it appears the anti-abortion camp may have the slight advantage. There are at least 22 states leaning towards restricting abortions based on past legislation. 12 have fairly liberal laws which are expected to remain on the books. It is in the 16 battle ground states where the fight for votes will be the most intense. With the battle lines drawn, both sides are cleared for a tough fight ahead. Says one activist, "The abortion issue will become the "Viet Nam" of the 1990s."
What circumstances brought the Webster decision about?
Susan Smith, Associative Legislative Director of National Right to Life Committee in Washington DC: "In over the last 16 years, the court has slowly changed and some of the Pro-Abortion Justices have retired and they've been replaced by Justices who don't favor Roe vs. Wade. So that when the Webster case came before the court there was different feeling among the Justices because there were new Justices. So we had a decision which was favorable to the Pro-Life movement."
Judie Brown - President, American Life League: "The unfortunate part of the Webster decision is that we did not win that much. For example, as I said, the preamble of the Webster law says that life begins at the moment of fertilization. The first thing that the Supreme Court did in July of 1989 was say directly that if that is the opinion of the state legislature of Missouri that's fine and dandy. It doesn't happen to be our opinion, and therefore we are not going to concur or disagree with the opinion of the state of Missouri. So they set aside the pre-amble of the Webster law and decided not to decide one way or the other. So the court still today has not addressed the medical evidence of when life begins.
Susan Brown: "The Webster decision didn't outlaw abortion. It didn't even tell the states that now they could begin outlawing abortions. It just created a "window of opportunity" for the Pro-Life movement, for the Pro-Life citizens to finally do something about abortion., which for 16 years really they haven't been able to do.
John: Now according to the May 1, 1989 issue of Time magazine Cosmopolitan editor Helen Gurly Brown, and the editor's of 16 other women's magazines all agreed together, to step up their coverage of the abortion dispute. Brown stated "I feel we're not holding our ground the way that we should." But Pro-Abortion groups such as the National Rights Action League and Planned Parenthood are all spending millions of dollars to promote their cause of abortion on demand with no restrictions during all 9 months of pregnancy. I asked Mr. Joe Scheidler, Executive Director of the Pro Life Action League and Judie Brown, President of the American Life League, what Pro-Life forces can expect to face in the days ahead as a result of the Webster case.
Joe Scheidler: "Roe v Wade doesn't exist anymore as powerfully as it did. It's been eroded, there's more erosion in the future. Now what the media are trying to do, the secular media, are to make it look as though Webster simply woke up the Abortionist. Actually what the abortionist are doing is pouring a lot of money, a lot of energy, a lot of effort trying to convince the American people that they like abortion. The American people DON'T like abortion. All the polls consistently show, the Boston Globe, the New York times, Newsweek, practically every poll has shown that the American people have not changed on abortion. They would allow abortion for the hard cases, which is rape, incest, and life of the mother. They would not allow abortion for economic reasons, for convenience, because it's a bad time for the woman to have a child, because the boy friend or husband has taken off. Actually, the abortions that are performed that would be approved of by the majority of the American people are less than 2%, the real hard cases.
Judie Brown: Well every poll that's been taken in the United States in the last five years on the subject of killing children in the womb has been skewed immediately by the way in which the question is asked. If you ask a woman, including myself, whether she's in favor of controlling her own body, she will always answer "Well of course I am, to the extent that it's humanly possible to do so." If you asked those same women "Are you in favor of killing a child who lives in your womb after pregnancy begins?", I can't think of one woman, with the exception of maybe Molly Yard, who would say "Yes, I'm in favor of killing a baby." It has everything to do with the way the question is asked. When the Boston Globe ran a poll in October of this year, and asked the questions properly, and then published the results which was just astounding, 92% of the people polled by the Boston Globe are against the killing of an innocent baby in all cases except the life of the mother. Now that is probably the most accurate statistic I've seen because the polling questions were truly not biased. They did not beg an answer. They were scientifically based. I've never believed that the majority of Americans are in favor of killing children, but I very much I very much believe the majority of Americans are in favor of their freedom.
John: On Feb. 7, 1990, a poll was released by the Worthland group that showed 89% of Americans favored some type of restrictions on abortions. It also showed that only 11% of Americans agree with the position that abortion should be legal without restrictions through out pregnancy. Now that's the official position of the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), and the National Organization for Women (NOW). So let me ask you, "Did you hear of the Worthland poll on television? Did you read it in your local newspapers?" No. Do you think you would have heard about this poll if the statistics would have been reversed? Of course you would. Now this shows the media biased the Pro-Lifers are up against. We want to look at 8 strategies for action. What can you do if you're concerned about saving the lives of innocent children in the womb? If you're a Christian and want to see abortion stop in your city, in your state, in the country?
Well FIRST, every person can PRAY. Abortion is a moral and spiritual problem. We must pray that God will convict the hearts and minds of people who are still on the fence, that He would motivate and encourage other Christians to join this battle over abortion. Scripture tell us that we are to pray for those in Government, pray that they would do what is right for country. The Bible tells us that the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. You know there is no reason Christians cannot be more active in prayer, both individually and in their churches. As a Christian you should also ask God to give you special guidance knowing what you should do to make a difference in this abortion battle.
SECOND, every person can WRITE a letter. You know some polls show there are 60 million Christians in this country. Most Christians do not realize that if they took only a few minutes a day to write their elected representatives, this alone would have dramatic results. Letters should also be written to editors of local newspapers, to national magazines, and to local radio stations when ever abortion myths are promoted. You should always write your local television station, as well as your national ABC, NBC, and CBS network officials, if complaints are justified, concerning biased, erroneous, or unfair reporting.
And THIRD, every person can make a PHONE CALL. Besides letters, phone calls can make an immediate impact. Have you ever called your congressman? Have you ever called the office of your senator and let them know how you feel? Have you ever called your local television station, or your local newspaper? You can make a difference in changing the climate, in influencing key politicians that will make decisions on whether children in the womb live or die. The question is, "Will you?". I asked Judie Brown, Susan Smith, and Joe Schidler how they thought an individual can make the greatest impact, in stopping abortions in America. Here's what they said.
Judie Brown: When someone asks me what could they do to help stop the killing of the innocent pre-born child, I relate the story of my own life, because I became involved in fighting abortion right after I became a new mother. I didn't have any particular skills for doing this, but I knew, holding that little baby in my arms who was only 3 months old, that there had to be something wrong in a country where a state would be discussing how to kill a baby safely so that the mother could get off Scott free and no longer be a mother. I knew that was wrong. I went to my pastor. I asked my pastor how I could go about passing out literature in my community and my pastor helped me. I went to the local schools and I asked what they were saying about pregnancy in the classroom, I asked them to show me all their books, I asked them to show me all the brochures that were made available to the students. And I then found out that in many schools, they were teaching a very anti-life ethic, they in fact were not making any pro-life, or pro-Christian information available. I went back to my pastor again. I asked my pastor how I would go about getting the right kind of material, and unfortunately my pastor threw up his hands and said he didn't know. So I scratched around in the phone book and I finally found a Pro-Life group. Once I found the Pro-Life group, I found I was more comfortable collecting baby clothes for girls who were becoming pregnant and had no where to go, that I was more comfortable helping to raise money by baking cakes and cookies for bake sales. I was more comfortable writing letters to the editor every time I saw a pro-abortion statement in my newspaper. I had my typewriter on top of my washing machine and I could type all hours of the night and day. I found out how to call my legislators when there was a problem and I knew they were going to make a terrible mistake. And I called the Capital Hill switchboard every time there was a vote, and I let them know where our family stood. It's very simple for one person to make a difference, because what I now know after doing this for 20 years is that if I hadn't had the courage on that very first day I asked my pastor what I could do to make a difference I'd probably still be home doing nothing about it. That's the easiest course for one to take. You have to make up your mind that no matter how busy you are as a young mother, as a business professional, as a career person, that you're going to set aside out of your life to save the lives of innocent children who will not live to see tomorrow if you don't do something today.
Susan Smith: And it's absolutely critical that everybody, every Pro-Life citizen who's ever written a letter and who's ever been active should do so and all those people who have never done anything before should sit down and in their own words write the Congressman, their two Senators, their Governor, the President, their State Legislator, and everybody else that they can think of that's an elected official. And write them a letter and say it just like they feel it. I think abortion is wrong, and I want you to do something about it.
Joe Scheidler: We can write whenever we find an article in the newspaper, something on television we object to. Protest. It's not right to let these things go by without an answer. A lot of times the editors will call us in and have a meeting with us because they've gotten so much protest from good Christians out there. There is plenty we can do, we can write, we can pray.
John: Number 4. Everyone can VOTE. Christians can support candidates who are committed to protecting unborn human lives and oppose Pro-Choice candidates. You know, Christians must let their government leaders know that they will not vote for them if they do not represent them correctly on the abortion issue. If 60 million or so Christians in America would actively get involved on the behalf of children in the womb, there is no doubt that abortion would be legally stopped.
Bernard Nathanson, MD, Obstetrician, NY, NY (Jewish atheist): I don't think you have to have any special qualifications to be effect in the Pro-Life issue. I think that everyone can educate themselves, to the facts of pre-natal life. Everyone can be active in lobbying legislators, and if legislators do not hear from people, then they will go their own way. They will put their finger to the wind and decide this is the way we will go. But if people educate themselves to the facts of pre-natal life, pre-natality, as I call it, which is one stage away from childhood, and by the way pre-natality is just part of our lifespan. If people educate themselves and then educate the legislators, I think we can change, we can reverse this.
Susan Smith: And I will tell you that these politicians listen, and they read their mail, and they look at the stacks, and they say, "Do I have more Pro-Choice or do I have more Pro-Life?" That's the bottom line. I've talked to politicians, congressmen, and senators every day and over and over and over again, I hear the same thing. "My constituents, people back in my state tell me this, I'm going to go that way".
John: Now, number 5. Everyone can BECOME better INFORMED on the facts and issues concerning unborn children in the womb, and share that information with your family and friends.
6. Have your church TEACH a Pro-Life SEMINAR, or better yet, have them organize a Pro-Life committee to keep your church members informed.
7. You can personally SUPPORT Pro-Life ORGANIZATIONS with your time and your finances.
8. You can be part of a PEACEFUL Pro-Life MARCH or demonstration.
9. Christians and churches must begin to SUPPORT a wide variety of pregnancy crisis and counseling MINISTRIES.
You know society today has largely abandoned it's women. Women must be helped, through the birth process and beyond with financial, emotional, and spiritual encouragement, as well as counseling.
Bishop Austin Vaughn, Catholic Bishop, NY: It's important to people to inform themselves of the facts with regard to abortion. And once they've got those facts, it's important to them to try and communicate them to others. The other things that we can do in terms of background maybe collectively in the community and individually to a lesser extent is to help people who find it very hard to bring children into the world and to support them. In my neighborhood, I live an a poor neighbor hood, there are many kinds of poverty there, there are people on drugs, prostitutes, mentally ill. By and large, the people who are the poorest are those who are euphemistically described as single parents, abandoned by the father, with little or no support. We ought to be concerned about those people. We ought to be concerned about women who are pregnant, because it gets harder and harder to get prenatal care, because doctor's are afraid of malpractices. We've got to do what we can to provide support to women who have had abortions and who are now living through that pain and that anguish. They can be among the best witnesses to what's involved in this.
Dr. James Kennedy, Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church: Abortion is one of the greatest tragedies in the history of our nation. Almost 25 million innocent babes have been killed. Killed on the order of that person upon whom they the greatest right to expect love and protection and care, their own mothers. This is a tragedy so deep and so dark that I cannot adequately describe it. It is the great shame of America and the world today. Something must be done to stop it. I think that we now have the opportunity and we will be held responsible by our God for doing something to protect the innocent. God is concerned about the widow and about the orphan, and about the innocent and the helpless. I hope that you will act, and you will determine by God's grace I may not be able to do everything but I can do something and by that grace I'm going to do it.
John: Now as a result of the Supreme Court's decision on the Webster case there's a door of opportunity that is opened to the Pro-Life movement, if we will get involved. Would you get involved? What is it that God is leading you to do? Everybody's important. Everybody has a place. What is it that God wants you to do?
For the interested John Ankerburg can be seen every Sunday night on the "FAM" channel (old "CBN" channel) on most cable TV networks. He shows each night between 10:30PM and 11:00PM.